Religion to Reality

This is a simple trailer to let you know that next up for Religion to Reality is a series of bonus episodes. Every other week, we’ll release the full conversation we had with one of our guests from Season One. 
Have a listen to this teaser to hear a quick montage of our favorite topic revealed to us throughout the season.
See you for Season Two in 2026!

Religion to Reality: Season Finale – Living the Integrated Life
Quick Summary
In this powerful season finale of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich reflect on their journey through over two dozen interviews, distilling the most transformative lessons about living an integrated spiritual life. They explore why listening, not activism, may be the most prophetic witness the Church can offer today, challenge traditional clericalism from surprising angles, and discover that belonging must come before belief. Through conversations with Stephen White, Fr. Thomas Gaunt, and Paul Fahey, this episode reveals how authentic relationships, radical listening, and the sacramental worldview can transform both individual lives and Church communities.
In This Episode, We Explore:
The Art of Radical Listening (4:00)

Why listening is the highest form of paying attention and waiting for God
The difference between productive action and contemplative discernment
How the spirit of Advent shapes authentic spiritual practice

Discipleship vs. Activism (6:30)

The dangerous professionalization of Church work
Why doing “Catholic things” doesn’t automatically equal discipleship
How the division between clergy and laity undermines the baptismal call

Clericalism from the Bottom Up (8:00)

Steven White’s provocative insight: laity share responsibility for clericalism
The transactional spirituality that’s persisted for 1,500+ years
Why waiting for bishops to fix problems is itself a form of clericalism

The Fluidity of Roles (12:00)

Moving beyond rigid categories while honoring the sacramental priesthood
How effective preaching happens beyond ordination
Creating healthy tension between structure and Spirit

Research as Sacred Listening (20:00)

Fr. Thomas Gaunt on CARA’s agenda-free approach to Church research
Why Sunday Mass attendance isn’t the only measure of active faith
The surprising power of baptism to create lifelong belonging

The Indelible Mark of Baptism (25:00)

Why does baptizing infants offer a “container” for spiritual growth
How baptism creates belonging regardless of church participation
The beauty of unconditional ecclesial presence

Belonging Before Belief (33:00)

Other Studies and Data with Hans Plate, Josh Packard, and Fr. Joe Gibino
Quick Summary
In this insightful episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich step back from theory to examine the hard data behind Catholic discipleship and faith formation. They explore surprising findings from their comprehensive discipleship study and discuss what the numbers reveal about modern spiritual practices, evangelization comfort levels, and the changing landscape of faith in America.
Featuring interviews with three leading voices in faith research, Hans Plate (Vinea Research), Josh Packard (Future of Faith), and Fr. Joseph Gibino (Diocese of Brooklyn), this episode bridges the gap between data and pastoral practice. Discover what Gen Z really thinks about God, why 100% of people with spiritual directors found them through a spiritual community to which they already belong, and how the Synod on Synodality is reshaping the Church’s approach to listening.
Key Takeaway: Data isn’t just for businesses—it’s essential for understanding how to meet people where they are in their faith journey and creating meaningful pathways to deeper discipleship.
In This Episode, We Explore:
[00:00:00] Opening Reflection

“Listen and silent share the same letters” – the importance of silence in listening

[00:01:00] Why Data Matters for the Church

How businesses use data to serve customers
Applying data-driven insights to church ministry
Understanding where people stand in their faith journey

[00:02:00] Surprising Study Findings

Both physical and digital prayer aids are used across all generations (only 6% use exclusively one type)
100% of people with spiritual directors found them through their parish or faith community
Prayer apps correlate with increased prayer frequency
The challenge of measuring interior spiritual life

[00:04:00] The Omnichannel Approach to Faith

Why multiple touchpoints matter in spiritual formation
The integrated life as the ultimate goal
Different seasons require different spiritual resources

[00:06:00] Interview with Hans Plate (Vinea Research)

Majority of respondents pray over an hour daily
76% are comfortable evangelizing; 56% are proactive about it
High interest in learning more about evangelization
The need to understand what “evangelization” actually means to people

[00:09:00] Rethinking Evangelization

The Power of Community in Faith Formation with Dr. Mark Heyman, Renée Roden, and Luisamaria Hernandez
Quick Summary
How do you find authentic Catholic community in a world that’s more connected yet more isolated than ever? In this episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore why community keeps emerging as a central theme in faith formation, and why finding the right fit can be so challenging.
From whiskey tastings to Catholic Worker houses to digital book clubs, discover how different forms of community serve different spiritual needs. You’ll hear honest conversations about parish shopping, the struggle to commit, and why sometimes the best community isn’t the one with perfect liturgy or programs, it’s the one where you show up consistently. Whether you’re searching for your spiritual home or wondering if online connections can ever replace in-person fellowship, this episode offers practical wisdom for the journey.
In this Episode, We Explore:
Community Happens When People Need It (2:00-3:30)

Why genuine encounters with God spark the desire for community
How passion and shared interests naturally create fellowship

Whiskey and the Word: An Unconventional Small Group (4:00-14:00) Guest: Dr. Mark Heyman, Licensed Psychologist & Small Group Leader

Creating low-barrier entry points for men’s fellowship
Why forced sharing turns people off from faith groups
The importance of consistency: same time, same place, every week
Understanding that not every group can (or should) be for everyone
How whiskey breaks down barriers without being about getting drunk

Living in Community: Lessons from Catholic Worker Movement (20:00-32:00) Guest: Renée Roden, Journalist & Catholic Worker Member

The reality check: community life is hard, even with a 1,300-year-old rule
Why intimacy and friendship are foundational to sustainable community
The temptation to become dictators of our own countercultural communes
How families are successfully living the Catholic Worker vision
Why conversion of heart requires healthy community support

Digital vs. In-Person Community (37:00-52:00) Guest: Luisamaria Hernandez, DeSales Media Success Consultant

Using digital spaces as entry points to in-person connection
Why commitment leads to consistency (and vice versa)
The power of showing up: how to actually find communities in your area

Podcasting with Paul Fahey, Christina Semmens, and Jose Manuel de Urquidi
Quick Summary 
Are podcasts reshaping how Catholics engage with their faith? In this episode of Religion to Reality, we explore the explosive growth of Catholic podcasting and what it means for modern faith formation. From survivors finding their voice to Latino communities building networks, discover why this medium is uniquely positioned to meet people where they are—both spiritually and literally.
In this Episode, We Explore:
On the Nature of Catholic Media and Church Authority (00:00 – 08:00)

“Anyone who’s baptized is the church” – Paul Fahey challenges traditional boundaries of who creates “official” Catholic content
Why the institutional church struggles with oversight in the podcast space
The tension between empowering lay voices and preventing spiritual harm through misinformation

Measuring What Really Matters Beyond Downloads (11:00 – 17:00)

“If one person’s heart has been touched, you’ve done your task and mission” – Christina Semmens on redefining podcast success
How the head-heart-hands-feet framework applies to both creating and consuming content
Why discernment, not downloads, should drive your content decisions

From Fishing in Ponds to Sailing the Ocean (20:00 – 29:00)

Jose Manuel de Urquidi’s wake-up call: “We’re all fishing in the same small pond while the ocean is right there”
How John Paul II prophetically identified the internet as the “new Roman Forum” back in 2002
Why podcasts can create deep encounters with God despite being one-way communication 

Meet Our Guests
Paul Fahey – Host of Third Space podcast, limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist who focuses on survivors of church-related abuse. Paul stumbled into podcasting a decade ago and found it uniquely suited to catechesis through dialogue rather than static writing.
Christina Semmens – Host of Say Yes to Holiness With 230+ episodes under her belt, Christina brings a framework of head-heart-hands-feet to integrated Catholic living. Her podcast emerged from her book work and has become a continuous discernment journey.
Jose Manuel de Urquidi – Founder of the Juan Diego Network Leading a podcast network dedicated to Latino Catholics with shows covering everything from church history to children’s stories. His mission: evangelize, form, and entertain—preferably all three at once.
Memorable Quotes 
01:00 – “I can listen to a podcast while driving, running, doing dishes, mowing the lawn” – Why convenience matters for busy Catholics
05:00

Quick Summary 
Are you attending Mass regularly but struggling to live out your faith in everyday life? You’re not alone. In this episode of Religion to Reality, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore why so many Catholics feel confident in their sacramental life but struggle with the expressive fruits of discipleship, particularly the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.
Drawing from their groundbreaking discipleship study, they sit down with three inspiring guests who are living these works of mercy in radically different ways: Renee Roden from the Catholic Worker Movement, Fr. Jim O’Shea of Reconnect Brooklyn, and Christina Semmens of Say Yes to Holiness. Together, they unpack what it truly means to become Eucharist in the world and how small acts of mercy in our daily lives can transform both ourselves and our communities.
In this Episode, We Explore:
Introduction: The Disconnect Between Mass and Mercy (00:00)

Overview of expressive fruits from the discipleship study
Why Catholics rate themselves low on works of mercy despite strong sacramental participation

Interview with Renee Roden – Catholic Worker Movement (3:00)

The relationship between the Eucharist and works of mercy
How the liturgical movement influenced Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin
Why there should be no division between “helpers” and “the helped”

Mass as Commissioning (9:22)

Understanding “Go forth, the Mass is ended” as a call to action
Integrating material and spiritual needs in service
The danger of separating soup kitchens from spiritual community

Practical First Steps for Living the Works of Mercy (13:00)

Why accompanying someone already doing this work matters
Overcoming the awkwardness of personal encounter
Building spiritual muscles through community

Interview with Father Jim O’Shea – Reconnect Brooklyn (15:00)

Working with at-risk youth in Bedford-Stuyvesant
How radical solidarity costs us our comfortable narratives
The fear that keeps us from authentic engagement

The Power of Listening (18:30)

Why Fr. Jim says we’ve “written off” certain groups of people
Starting with those in proximity before reaching the margins
Working the muscle of deep listening in your own family

Interview with Christina Semmens – Say Yes to Holiness (25:00)

Episode 6: Breaking Down Barriers to Evangelization – Moving from Techniques to Authentic Encounter
Quick Summary
Why do so many Catholics struggle to share their faith, even when they want to? In this episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore the personal and professional barriers that prevent Catholics from evangelizing effectively. Through conversations with Monica Martinez, parish lead at Hallow, Emily Ricci, founder and CEO of Gloriam Marketing, and Peter Andrastek, a senior consultant at the Evangelical Catholic, they discover that the solution isn’t more training or techniques, but something far more fundamental: authentic relationship, genuine encounter, and what you might call “pre-evangelization.” If you’ve ever felt uncomfortable with the word “evangelization” or wondered why your parish’s outreach efforts fall flat, this episode offers a refreshing perspective that puts listening, presence, and personal holiness before programs and strategies.
In This Episode, We Explore:

Why the word “evangelization” makes many Catholics uncomfortable (1:00)
“There needs to be almost what I would think call a pre-evangelization that takes priority over evangelization… It’s so much caught up in the whole realm of listening, proactively hearing what people are saying and hearing it well.” – Fr. John Gribowich

The medium is the message: How Jesus embodies this truth (3:00)
Understanding the incarnation as the ultimate example of medium as message
Why focusing on doctrine first can muddy the real goal of evangelization

Post-COVID parish evangelization efforts (7:00)
Monica Martinez shares what’s working: welcoming gestures, hospitality, and simple recognition of new visitors
How one parish’s director of evangelization makes newcomers feel valued

Why Mass is often the wrong entry point for evangelization (9:00)
The complexity barrier for outsiders: “This is boring. Why am I here?”
The importance of encounter over information: “It’s not so much about saying ‘tell me that God loves me.’ It’s experiencing the love of God.”

Teaching Masses as a tool for formation (13:00)
Father John’s experiences with Pre-Cana couples, RCIA candidates, and high school students
When and how teaching Masses work effectively

The mutual evangelization principle (16:00)
“The person who feels called to evangelize needs to also equally feel called to be evangelized by the person they are trying to evangelize.” – Fr. John Gribowich
Recognizing that Christ is already at work in every person’s life

Parish marketing challenges and solutions (19:00)
Emily Ricci on the top three obstacles: lack of time, lack of skills, lack of finances
Why “product before promotion” matters: You need something worth inviting people to

The language problem in evangelization (22:00)
Moving from “what and where” to “why and how”
Using testimonial language from actual participants to communicate value

What parishes get wrong about evangelization (22:00)
“They’re typically very different… the parish that’s going to be in the best spot to evangelize is the parish that’s already active and vibrant.”
Why you need to engage people in the pews before reaching new people

The 12-step program model for Church community (33:00)
What the Church can learn: ritual, vulnerability, accessibility, and companionship
Shoutout to Catholic in Recovery (catholicinrecovery.org)
…

Episode 5: The Sacred Art of Listening – Understanding Spiritual Direction
Quick Summary
What does it mean to truly hear someone versus simply listening? In this episode, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore the transformative practice of spiritual direction—examining how this ancient tradition helps us tune into God’s presence in our daily lives. Through intimate conversations with three practitioners, discover why seeing yourself as lovable might be the most important spiritual work you’ll ever do, and learn how one diocese is making spiritual direction accessible to thousands. Whether you’re seeking your first spiritual director or wondering if this practice is right for you, this episode offers practical wisdom and surprising data about one of Catholicism’s most powerful yet underutilized resources.
In This Episode, We Explore:
Opening Reflection: Hearing vs. Listening (00:00)

Marshall McLuhan’s insight on electronic-age communication and the Gospel
The difference between restrictive listening and transformative hearing
Why Christ distinguished between scribes who listened and disciples who heard
Key Quote: “To listen is to blinker yourself… but to hear is to put yourself on the same wavelength as the speaker.” (02:00)

Interview with Mary Glowaski – Creating Gentle Spaces (04:00)
Mary Glowaski is a spiritual director based in Fort Wayne, Indiana, and serves as Dave’s spiritual director

Why gentleness matters more than technique in spiritual direction
The crucial distinction between being loved and seeing yourself as lovable (06:00)
Understanding whose we are, not just who we are (07:00)
How spiritual directors discern between spiritual direction, pastoral counseling, and mentoring (08:00)
The sacred trust of covenant confidentiality vs. simple confidentiality (10:00)
Key Quote: “Too often I find people, Dave, that it is not that they don’t feel loved, they don’t see themselves as lovable.” (06:45)

Confession and Direction: A Priestly Perspective (11:00)
Father John Gribowich reflects on the intersection of sacramental confession and spiritual direction

Why confession should be viewed as gratitude rather than legalism (13:00)
The challenge of complementing confession with spiritual direction
Rethinking “spiritual direction” as “spiritual guidance”
Why priests aren’t always the right choice for spiritual direction (22:00)

Interview with Deacon Tom Whalen – Building Diocesan Infrastructure (16:00)
Deacon Tom Whalen coordinates spiritual direction for the Diocese of Charleston, South Carolina

How one diaconate formation class revealed a massive gap in spiritual direction access (17:00)
Creating a diocesan-wide spiritual direction program from scratch
Why Spring Hill College’s graduate program became the foundation
The innovative model: spiritual directors work under pastors, not the chancery (19:00)
Addressing the supply and demand crisis in spiritual direction

Interview with Hans Plate – What the Data Reveals (23:00)
Hans Plate is founder and president of Vinea Research and partner on the Religion to Reality discipleship study

The surprising 100% statistic about spiritual direction availability (23:00)
Why many Catholics don’t understand what spiritual direction actually is
Hans’s personal journey: discovering spiritual direction through confession (25:00)
The challenge of finding the right match when directors relocate (26:00)
Com…

Religion to Reality Episode 4: Generational Differences in Discipleship
Quick Summary
In this thought-provoking episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore the significant generational gap in Catholic discipleship and church attendance. Drawing from their recent discipleship study of mass-attending Catholics, they examine why younger generations are largely absent from churches and what can be done to bridge this divide.
The hosts speak with three experienced Catholic leaders who share practical insights on meeting the unique spiritual needs of different age groups: Mike St. Pierre (Diocese of Allentown Superintendent and former Catholic Campus Ministry Association Executive Director), Paul Morisi (Principal of Bay Ridge Catholic Academy and former Director of Youth and Young Adult Faith Formation for the Diocese of Brooklyn), and Friar Rick Riccioli (Franciscan Pastor in Brooklyn).
In this Episode, We Explore:
Opening Discussion: The Generational Church Gap [00:00:00 – 06:00]

Study results showing 75% Baby Boomer/Gen X participation vs. 2% Gen Z
Why young people aren’t attending mass
The hunger for in-person community among digital natives
The impact of mediated society on human connection

Interview with Mike St. Pierre [06:00 – 15:30]

Moving from “saying prayers” to “prayerfulness” [07:00]
Family prayer laboratory concept [11:00]
COVID as catalyst for spiritual leadership [10:30]
The challenge of spiritual parenting and overcoming resistance

Conversation Analysis [15:30 – 21:00]

Practical prayerfulness: 3 minutes of intentional listening [18:00]
Individual spiritual charisms and the “spiritual laboratory” approach [20:00]
Moving beyond one-size-fits-all religious education

Interview with Paul Morisi [21:00 – 32:00]

Adapting Catholic education for 2024 realities [22:00]
Finding “on-ramps” for individual students [25:00]
Measuring interior spiritual growth [27:00]
The shift from factory model to individualized formation

Interview with Friar Rick Riccioli [34:00 – 42:00]

Managing parish demographic shifts and legacy infrastructure [35:00]
The heartbreak of failed faith transmission [38:00]
Funerals as powerful evangelization moments [40:00]
Working with aging congregations while attracting youth

Closing Reflections [42:00 – 48:00]

The limitation of Eucharist-centered faith without life integration [42:00]
Mortality encounters and ritual hunger [44:00]
The importance of welcoming rather than judging returning Catholics

Key Takeaways

The “How-To” Gap: Churches excel at teaching doctrine but struggle with practical spiritual formation
Individual Approach: Moving from factory-model religion to personalized spiritual development
Family as Laboratory: Homes should be experimental spaces for different prayer styles and spiritual practices
Generational Bridge-Building: Older parishioners can be allies in youth ministry when they understand the mission
Crisis as Opportunity: Major life events (especially funerals) provide powerful evangelization moments
Integration Over Compartmentalization: Faith must pervade all of life, not just Sunday worship

Meet Our Guests
Mike St. Pierre

Superintendent of Schools, Diocese of Allentown, Pennsylv…