Religion to Reality

Quick Summary
In this bonus episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Father John Gribowich sit down with Catholic educator and mindfulness teacher, Kathy Lorentz, to explore how prayer is far more than just words. It’s about cultivating awareness of God’s presence throughout every moment of our lives.
Kathy shares her journey from playing the Blessed Mother in a touring play at age 16 to becoming a theology teacher who works with students from preschool through adulthood. Her approach to prayer challenges traditional notions, revealing how attention, gratitude, and presence can transform mundane moments into sacred encounters.
Listen now to discover how you can develop a deeper prayer life without adding more to your to-do list.
 
In This Bonus Episode, We Explore:
The Nature of Prayer and Attention (03:00-09:00)

Why prayer isn’t just an activity but an awareness of God’s presence
The profound connection between attention and prayer: “Attention taken to its highest degree is the same thing as prayer” (Simone Weil)
How attention works like a spotlight—you can only focus on one thing at a time
Understanding that “attention is a muscle” that strengthens with practice

Navigating the Digital Age Mindfully (09:00-12:00)

Practical strategies for teaching high school students to manage digital distractions
The importance of turning off notifications and using “do not disturb” mode intentionally
Helping students recognize the preciousness of time through journaling their digital habits
How to be fully present whether in prayer or conversation

Prayer Practices for Everyday Life (12:00-19:00)

Using gratitude as a form of prayer—finding three or four meaningful moments each day
The comfort and power of repetitive prayers like the Hail Mary (Kathy prays it up to 50 times daily)
Creating “mindfulness bells” throughout your day—doorways, meals, car rides as prayer opportunities
Prayer while driving past struggling communities: holding people in compassionate love

The Importance of Intentional Prayer Time (20:00-23:00)

Why setting aside dedicated time for prayer matters, even when we know life itself is prayer
The transformative power of beginning your day with five minutes of prayer
How communal and structured prayer (like in monasteries) can form us
The blessing of working in theology education, where prayer is built into the day

Praying for Others (23:00-26:00)

What it means to hold people in prayer without imposing our will
Why Kathy rarely prays for specific outcomes: “I don’t have the wisdom to know what a suffering someone needs.”
The sacredness of simply blessing others: “God bless you. May God bless you.”
Understanding your presence itself as prayer when you carry the Holy Spirit with you

Misconceptions About Prayer (26:00-29:00)

How gratitude, acts of service, and caring attention are all forms of prayer
Meister Eckhart’s wisdom: “If all you said was thank you, that would be prayer enough.”
Why telling young people “You don’t get to choose” whether you’re spiritual—it’s part of being human
Moving beyond seeing prayer as separate from the rest of life toward integration

Cultivating Awe and Wonder (29:00-34:00)

How science and spirit aren’t opposites—the experience of awe bridges both
Dacher Keltner’s research: we need 50 experiences of awe per day, not just 2-3
Using “awe workshops” to help students recognize sacred moments
Einstein’s wisdom: “Never lose a holy cu…

Quick Summary 
What does it really mean to live an integrated faith life? In this powerful bonus episode, Father John Gribowich sits down with Cindy Black, a 26-year veteran of Catholic ministry, for an intimate conversation about discovering God in unexpected places and people.
Cindy shares her compelling journey from a “porta crib Catholic” who rarely attended Mass to becoming a passionate minister serving in youth ministry, diocesan leadership, Catholic radio, and parish evangelization. But this isn’t just another conversion story, it’s a profound exploration of how God shows up in bar conversations with atheists, friendships with those the church has wounded, and the sacred space of simply listening without agenda.
Through raw honesty and vulnerability, Cindy and Father John tackle the messy realities of ministry today moving beyond “winning arguments” to genuine encounter, and recognizing that every person, regardless of their beliefs or lifestyle, reveals something about the mystery of God’s love.
If you’ve ever felt that your strongest encounters with God happened outside traditional church settings, or if you’re wrestling with how to authentically love people the church has marginalized, this conversation will resonate deeply.
In This Bonus Episode, We Explore:
Finding Faith Through Witness (0:00 – 7:00)

Cindy’s journey from occasional Mass attendance to active faith
The transformative influence of her Catholic grandparents
How her grandparents embodied Theology of the Body before it was taught
The moment she encountered God’s love while holding her newborn daughter

From Relational Ministry to Radical Love (7:00 – 14:00)

The Christ Renew His Parish retreat that changed everything
Moving beyond “relational ministry with an ulterior motive”
Understanding that truth isn’t moral ideals—it’s a Person whose identity is love
Encountering God through unexpected friendships at a bar

God in the Margins (14:00 – 22:00)

Father John’s reflection on the Eucharist as lens for seeing God everywhere
Why the strongest encounters with God often happen outside church structures
The sacredness of face-to-face conversation in a dehumanized world
Suffering as the great unifier across political and religious divides

Accompaniment Over Conversion (22:00 – 31:00)

Moving from “winning arguments” to walking alongside people
The complex pastoral situation of accompanying a trans individual seeking baptism
What baptism really means when we don’t fully understand how grace works
Simone Weil’s paradox: refusing baptism to avoid separating herself from others

Formation as Transformation (31:00 – 40:00)

What faith formation really means (hint: it’s not just theology classes)
Avoiding the “consumer Catholic” trap
Why the disciples didn’t need seminary degrees to transform the world
Interior integration versus compartmentalization

The Art of Accompaniment (40:00 – 52:00)

Pope Francis’s call to “remove our sandals at the sacredness of the other”
How a barber brought four people to faith this year
Treating every interaction—even with store clerks—as eternal encounter
The prophetic practice of listening without agenda

Meet Our Guest
Cindy Black has served in Catholic ministry for 26 years across multiple roles including youth ministry director, diocesan director of youth and young adult ministry (9 years), Catholic radio station team member (8 years), and currently serves in the Office of Evangelization at her home parish in Indi…

This is a simple trailer to let you know that next up for Religion to Reality is a series of bonus episodes. Every other week, we’ll release the full conversation we had with one of our guests from Season One. 
Have a listen to this teaser to hear a quick montage of our favorite topic revealed to us throughout the season.
See you for Season Two in 2026!

Religion to Reality: Season Finale – Living the Integrated Life
Quick Summary
In this powerful season finale of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich reflect on their journey through over two dozen interviews, distilling the most transformative lessons about living an integrated spiritual life. They explore why listening, not activism, may be the most prophetic witness the Church can offer today, challenge traditional clericalism from surprising angles, and discover that belonging must come before belief. Through conversations with Stephen White, Fr. Thomas Gaunt, and Paul Fahey, this episode reveals how authentic relationships, radical listening, and the sacramental worldview can transform both individual lives and Church communities.
In This Episode, We Explore:
The Art of Radical Listening (4:00)

Why listening is the highest form of paying attention and waiting for God
The difference between productive action and contemplative discernment
How the spirit of Advent shapes authentic spiritual practice

Discipleship vs. Activism (6:30)

The dangerous professionalization of Church work
Why doing “Catholic things” doesn’t automatically equal discipleship
How the division between clergy and laity undermines the baptismal call

Clericalism from the Bottom Up (8:00)

Steven White’s provocative insight: laity share responsibility for clericalism
The transactional spirituality that’s persisted for 1,500+ years
Why waiting for bishops to fix problems is itself a form of clericalism

The Fluidity of Roles (12:00)

Moving beyond rigid categories while honoring the sacramental priesthood
How effective preaching happens beyond ordination
Creating healthy tension between structure and Spirit

Research as Sacred Listening (20:00)

Fr. Thomas Gaunt on CARA’s agenda-free approach to Church research
Why Sunday Mass attendance isn’t the only measure of active faith
The surprising power of baptism to create lifelong belonging

The Indelible Mark of Baptism (25:00)

Why does baptizing infants offer a “container” for spiritual growth
How baptism creates belonging regardless of church participation
The beauty of unconditional ecclesial presence

Belonging Before Belief (33:00)

Other Studies and Data with Hans Plate, Josh Packard, and Fr. Joe Gibino
Quick Summary
In this insightful episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich step back from theory to examine the hard data behind Catholic discipleship and faith formation. They explore surprising findings from their comprehensive discipleship study and discuss what the numbers reveal about modern spiritual practices, evangelization comfort levels, and the changing landscape of faith in America.
Featuring interviews with three leading voices in faith research, Hans Plate (Vinea Research), Josh Packard (Future of Faith), and Fr. Joseph Gibino (Diocese of Brooklyn), this episode bridges the gap between data and pastoral practice. Discover what Gen Z really thinks about God, why 100% of people with spiritual directors found them through a spiritual community to which they already belong, and how the Synod on Synodality is reshaping the Church’s approach to listening.
Key Takeaway: Data isn’t just for businesses—it’s essential for understanding how to meet people where they are in their faith journey and creating meaningful pathways to deeper discipleship.
In This Episode, We Explore:
[00:00:00] Opening Reflection

“Listen and silent share the same letters” – the importance of silence in listening

[00:01:00] Why Data Matters for the Church

How businesses use data to serve customers
Applying data-driven insights to church ministry
Understanding where people stand in their faith journey

[00:02:00] Surprising Study Findings

Both physical and digital prayer aids are used across all generations (only 6% use exclusively one type)
100% of people with spiritual directors found them through their parish or faith community
Prayer apps correlate with increased prayer frequency
The challenge of measuring interior spiritual life

[00:04:00] The Omnichannel Approach to Faith

Why multiple touchpoints matter in spiritual formation
The integrated life as the ultimate goal
Different seasons require different spiritual resources

[00:06:00] Interview with Hans Plate (Vinea Research)

Majority of respondents pray over an hour daily
76% are comfortable evangelizing; 56% are proactive about it
High interest in learning more about evangelization
The need to understand what “evangelization” actually means to people

[00:09:00] Rethinking Evangelization

The Power of Community in Faith Formation with Dr. Mark Heyman, Renée Roden, and Luisamaria Hernandez
Quick Summary
How do you find authentic Catholic community in a world that’s more connected yet more isolated than ever? In this episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore why community keeps emerging as a central theme in faith formation, and why finding the right fit can be so challenging.
From whiskey tastings to Catholic Worker houses to digital book clubs, discover how different forms of community serve different spiritual needs. You’ll hear honest conversations about parish shopping, the struggle to commit, and why sometimes the best community isn’t the one with perfect liturgy or programs, it’s the one where you show up consistently. Whether you’re searching for your spiritual home or wondering if online connections can ever replace in-person fellowship, this episode offers practical wisdom for the journey.
In this Episode, We Explore:
Community Happens When People Need It (2:00-3:30)

Why genuine encounters with God spark the desire for community
How passion and shared interests naturally create fellowship

Whiskey and the Word: An Unconventional Small Group (4:00-14:00) Guest: Dr. Mark Heyman, Licensed Psychologist & Small Group Leader

Creating low-barrier entry points for men’s fellowship
Why forced sharing turns people off from faith groups
The importance of consistency: same time, same place, every week
Understanding that not every group can (or should) be for everyone
How whiskey breaks down barriers without being about getting drunk

Living in Community: Lessons from Catholic Worker Movement (20:00-32:00) Guest: Renée Roden, Journalist & Catholic Worker Member

The reality check: community life is hard, even with a 1,300-year-old rule
Why intimacy and friendship are foundational to sustainable community
The temptation to become dictators of our own countercultural communes
How families are successfully living the Catholic Worker vision
Why conversion of heart requires healthy community support

Digital vs. In-Person Community (37:00-52:00) Guest: Luisamaria Hernandez, DeSales Media Success Consultant

Using digital spaces as entry points to in-person connection
Why commitment leads to consistency (and vice versa)
The power of showing up: how to actually find communities in your area

Podcasting with Paul Fahey, Christina Semmens, and Jose Manuel de Urquidi
Quick Summary 
Are podcasts reshaping how Catholics engage with their faith? In this episode of Religion to Reality, we explore the explosive growth of Catholic podcasting and what it means for modern faith formation. From survivors finding their voice to Latino communities building networks, discover why this medium is uniquely positioned to meet people where they are—both spiritually and literally.
In this Episode, We Explore:
On the Nature of Catholic Media and Church Authority (00:00 – 08:00)

“Anyone who’s baptized is the church” – Paul Fahey challenges traditional boundaries of who creates “official” Catholic content
Why the institutional church struggles with oversight in the podcast space
The tension between empowering lay voices and preventing spiritual harm through misinformation

Measuring What Really Matters Beyond Downloads (11:00 – 17:00)

“If one person’s heart has been touched, you’ve done your task and mission” – Christina Semmens on redefining podcast success
How the head-heart-hands-feet framework applies to both creating and consuming content
Why discernment, not downloads, should drive your content decisions

From Fishing in Ponds to Sailing the Ocean (20:00 – 29:00)

Jose Manuel de Urquidi’s wake-up call: “We’re all fishing in the same small pond while the ocean is right there”
How John Paul II prophetically identified the internet as the “new Roman Forum” back in 2002
Why podcasts can create deep encounters with God despite being one-way communication 

Meet Our Guests
Paul Fahey – Host of Third Space podcast, limited licensed professional counselor, retreat leader, and catechist who focuses on survivors of church-related abuse. Paul stumbled into podcasting a decade ago and found it uniquely suited to catechesis through dialogue rather than static writing.
Christina Semmens – Host of Say Yes to Holiness With 230+ episodes under her belt, Christina brings a framework of head-heart-hands-feet to integrated Catholic living. Her podcast emerged from her book work and has become a continuous discernment journey.
Jose Manuel de Urquidi – Founder of the Juan Diego Network Leading a podcast network dedicated to Latino Catholics with shows covering everything from church history to children’s stories. His mission: evangelize, form, and entertain—preferably all three at once.
Memorable Quotes 
01:00 – “I can listen to a podcast while driving, running, doing dishes, mowing the lawn” – Why convenience matters for busy Catholics
05:00

Quick Summary 
Are you attending Mass regularly but struggling to live out your faith in everyday life? You’re not alone. In this episode of Religion to Reality, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore why so many Catholics feel confident in their sacramental life but struggle with the expressive fruits of discipleship, particularly the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.
Drawing from their groundbreaking discipleship study, they sit down with three inspiring guests who are living these works of mercy in radically different ways: Renee Roden from the Catholic Worker Movement, Fr. Jim O’Shea of Reconnect Brooklyn, and Christina Semmens of Say Yes to Holiness. Together, they unpack what it truly means to become Eucharist in the world and how small acts of mercy in our daily lives can transform both ourselves and our communities.
In this Episode, We Explore:
Introduction: The Disconnect Between Mass and Mercy (00:00)

Overview of expressive fruits from the discipleship study
Why Catholics rate themselves low on works of mercy despite strong sacramental participation

Interview with Renee Roden – Catholic Worker Movement (3:00)

The relationship between the Eucharist and works of mercy
How the liturgical movement influenced Dorothy Day and Peter Maurin
Why there should be no division between “helpers” and “the helped”

Mass as Commissioning (9:22)

Understanding “Go forth, the Mass is ended” as a call to action
Integrating material and spiritual needs in service
The danger of separating soup kitchens from spiritual community

Practical First Steps for Living the Works of Mercy (13:00)

Why accompanying someone already doing this work matters
Overcoming the awkwardness of personal encounter
Building spiritual muscles through community

Interview with Father Jim O’Shea – Reconnect Brooklyn (15:00)

Working with at-risk youth in Bedford-Stuyvesant
How radical solidarity costs us our comfortable narratives
The fear that keeps us from authentic engagement

The Power of Listening (18:30)

Why Fr. Jim says we’ve “written off” certain groups of people
Starting with those in proximity before reaching the margins
Working the muscle of deep listening in your own family

Interview with Christina Semmens – Say Yes to Holiness (25:00)

Episode 6: Breaking Down Barriers to Evangelization – Moving from Techniques to Authentic Encounter
Quick Summary
Why do so many Catholics struggle to share their faith, even when they want to? In this episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich explore the personal and professional barriers that prevent Catholics from evangelizing effectively. Through conversations with Monica Martinez, parish lead at Hallow, Emily Ricci, founder and CEO of Gloriam Marketing, and Peter Andrastek, a senior consultant at the Evangelical Catholic, they discover that the solution isn’t more training or techniques, but something far more fundamental: authentic relationship, genuine encounter, and what you might call “pre-evangelization.” If you’ve ever felt uncomfortable with the word “evangelization” or wondered why your parish’s outreach efforts fall flat, this episode offers a refreshing perspective that puts listening, presence, and personal holiness before programs and strategies.
In This Episode, We Explore:

Why the word “evangelization” makes many Catholics uncomfortable (1:00)
“There needs to be almost what I would think call a pre-evangelization that takes priority over evangelization… It’s so much caught up in the whole realm of listening, proactively hearing what people are saying and hearing it well.” – Fr. John Gribowich

The medium is the message: How Jesus embodies this truth (3:00)
Understanding the incarnation as the ultimate example of medium as message
Why focusing on doctrine first can muddy the real goal of evangelization

Post-COVID parish evangelization efforts (7:00)
Monica Martinez shares what’s working: welcoming gestures, hospitality, and simple recognition of new visitors
How one parish’s director of evangelization makes newcomers feel valued

Why Mass is often the wrong entry point for evangelization (9:00)
The complexity barrier for outsiders: “This is boring. Why am I here?”
The importance of encounter over information: “It’s not so much about saying ‘tell me that God loves me.’ It’s experiencing the love of God.”

Teaching Masses as a tool for formation (13:00)
Father John’s experiences with Pre-Cana couples, RCIA candidates, and high school students
When and how teaching Masses work effectively

The mutual evangelization principle (16:00)
“The person who feels called to evangelize needs to also equally feel called to be evangelized by the person they are trying to evangelize.” – Fr. John Gribowich
Recognizing that Christ is already at work in every person’s life

Parish marketing challenges and solutions (19:00)
Emily Ricci on the top three obstacles: lack of time, lack of skills, lack of finances
Why “product before promotion” matters: You need something worth inviting people to

The language problem in evangelization (22:00)
Moving from “what and where” to “why and how”
Using testimonial language from actual participants to communicate value

What parishes get wrong about evangelization (22:00)
“They’re typically very different… the parish that’s going to be in the best spot to evangelize is the parish that’s already active and vibrant.”
Why you need to engage people in the pews before reaching new people

The 12-step program model for Church community (33:00)
What the Church can learn: ritual, vulnerability, accessibility, and companionship
Shoutout to Catholic in Recovery (catholicinrecovery.org)
…