Both with Eva Natanya

QUICK SUMMARY

A former New York City Ballet dancer turned Buddhist scholar and contemplative, Eva Natanya has spent decades holding two traditions, Catholicism and Tibetan Buddhism, not as a contradiction, but as one integrated life. In this episode of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Eva to talk about emptiness, the resurrection, fear, authenticity, and why she refuses to call herself “hyphenated.” It’s one of the most theologically rich conversations of the season; give yourself room to sit with it.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE

• (00:00) Cold open: Eva on why faith needs powerful reasons to be sustained in a secular world
• (01:30) Episode intro, why this episode is called “Both,” and Eva’s bio
• (03:30) How Eva and Fr. John first crossed paths, through Eva’s mother, Veronica Mary Rolf
• (05:00) Co-writing Living Resurrected Lives with her mother, bringing Buddhist visualization techniques into explicitly Christian, Ignatian-style meditations
• (09:00) Eva’s path into Buddhism: ballet, her mother’s early gift of Zen Catholicism, and Teilhard de Chardin at age 12
• (13:00) The question that drove her studies: what if Christianity had developed in a completely different culture?
• (18:00) Why Buddhism became something she entered “as an insider,” not a comparativist
• (19:00) Dave’s tangent on Richard Rohr, “second-half-of-life spirituality,” and the three options for outgrowing one’s container
• (26:00) Fr. John on the fear of “coloring outside the lines” as a Catholic
• (28:30) Why Zen alone didn’t resolve Eva’s question of whether her practice was “justified” — and why Tibetan Buddhism’s philosophical rigor did
• (42:00) Unpacking sunyata / emptiness — the Madhyamaka “middle way” philosophy, and why it doesn’t mean nihilism
• (49:00) Reframing doctrine as “provisional but precious”, a possible lens for Jesus’s fulfillment (not abolishment) of the law
• (52:00) Concrete practice: guru yoga, analytical meditation, and parallels to confession and absolution
• (59:00) The heart of it: what Eva’s work on resurrection actually claims, subtle mind, continuity of consciousness, and “living resurrected lives” now
• (1:11:00) Eva’s invitation to the Center for Contemplative Research in Crestone, Colorado

ABOUT EVA NATANYA, PHD

Eva Natanya, PhD, is co-founder, vice president, and resident teacher at the Center for Contemplative Research in Crestone, Colorado. A scholar of Indian and Tibetan Buddhism, Christian theology, and comparative religion, she spent nine years as a professional ballet dancer with the New York City Ballet and the Royal Ballet before earning her MA at the Graduate Theological Union and her PhD in religious studies from the University of Virginia. She has collaborated with Dr. B. Alan Wallace on multiple translations of Tibetan Buddhist texts and co-authored Living Resurrected Lives with her mother, Veronica Mary Rolf. She has spent more than four years in a solitary meditation retreat.

MEMORABLE QUOTES

“One has to have extremely powerful reasons to uphold one’s faith in this world, where it’s not the norm.” — Eva Natanya (00:00)

“I don’t think… I doubt that you feel like you’re Christian today and Buddhist the next. This is a very integrated idea.” — Dave Plisky (00:21:00)

“Can you hold it as precious at the same time as seeing it as empty?” — Eva Natanya, on doctrine and Madhyamaka philosophy (00:47:00)

RESOURCES MENTIONED

• Center for Contemplative Research — Eva’s long-term retreat community in Crestone, CO
• Living Resurrected Lives: What it Means and Why it Matters — Eva Natanya & Veronica Mary Rolf
• Suddenly There Is God — Veronica Mary Rolf
• Open Mind: View and Meditation on the Lineage of Lerab Lingpa — trans. B. Alan Wallace, edited by Eva Natanya
• Fathoming the Mind: Inquiry and Insight in Dudjom Lingpa’s Vajra Essence — trans. B. Alan Wallace, edited by Eva Natanya
• Samatha and Vipashyana: An Anthology of Pith Instructions — trans. Eva Natanya & B. Alan Wallace
• Zen Catholicism — Dom Aelred Graham (read by Eva as a teenager)
• Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind — Shunryu Suzuki
• The Divine Milieu — Pierre Teilhard de Chardin
• The Bill Moyers / Huston Smith PBS series on world religions
• St. Simeon the New Theologian — referenced on the necessity of experiencing the Holy Spirit, not just baptism, for assurance of salvation