Religion to Reality: Season Finale – Living the Integrated Life

Quick Summary

In this powerful season finale of Religion to Reality, hosts Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich reflect on their journey through over two dozen interviews, distilling the most transformative lessons about living an integrated spiritual life. They explore why listening, not activism, may be the most prophetic witness the Church can offer today, challenge traditional clericalism from surprising angles, and discover that belonging must come before belief. Through conversations with Stephen White, Fr. Thomas Gaunt, and Paul Fahey, this episode reveals how authentic relationships, radical listening, and the sacramental worldview can transform both individual lives and Church communities.

In This Episode, We Explore:

The Art of Radical Listening (4:00)

• Why listening is the highest form of paying attention and waiting for God
• The difference between productive action and contemplative discernment
• How the spirit of Advent shapes authentic spiritual practice

Discipleship vs. Activism (6:30)

• The dangerous professionalization of Church work
• Why doing “Catholic things” doesn’t automatically equal discipleship
• How the division between clergy and laity undermines the baptismal call

Clericalism from the Bottom Up (8:00)

• Steven White’s provocative insight: laity share responsibility for clericalism
• The transactional spirituality that’s persisted for 1,500+ years
• Why waiting for bishops to fix problems is itself a form of clericalism

The Fluidity of Roles (12:00)

• Moving beyond rigid categories while honoring the sacramental priesthood
• How effective preaching happens beyond ordination
• Creating healthy tension between structure and Spirit

Research as Sacred Listening (20:00)

• Fr. Thomas Gaunt on CARA’s agenda-free approach to Church research
• Why Sunday Mass attendance isn’t the only measure of active faith
• The surprising power of baptism to create lifelong belonging

The Indelible Mark of Baptism (25:00)

• Why does baptizing infants offer a “container” for spiritual growth
• How baptism creates belonging regardless of church participation
• The beauty of unconditional ecclesial presence

Belonging Before Belief (33:00)

• Paul Fahey’s transformative principle: belonging comes first
• Why does making right belief the litmus test undermine the gospel
• Carl Rogers meets Catholic theology: empathy, genuineness, and unconditional love

Seven Themes That Emerged This Season (38:00)

• Living an integrated (not compartmentalized) life
• Embracing a sacramental worldview
• Authentic relationship over agenda
• The centrality of community
• Trust as the foundation for formation
• Formation beyond catechesis
• The sacred practice of discernment and listening

Meet Our Guests

Stephen White – Executive Director of the Catholic Project at Catholic University of America. Steven brings critical insights on clericalism, the professionalization of discipleship, and lay responsibility in Church renewal.

Fr. Thomas Gaunt, SJ – Executive Director of the Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) at Georgetown University. With over 40 years as a Jesuit priest, Fr. Tom shares how agenda-free research reveals unexpected truths about Catholic belonging.

Paul Fahey – Limited Licensed Professional Counselor, retreat leader, and catechist. Paul introduces the revolutionary idea that belonging must precede belief and explains how person-centered counseling aligns perfectly with Catholic anthropology.

Memorable Quotes

“If I make right belief or right behavior the litmus test for belonging, I’ve undermined the gospel.” – Paul Fahey

“It’s very hard these days to tell the difference between discipleship and activism.” – Stephen White

“Listening is everything. I think it may sound frustrating for some people because it’s like, well if you just listen, then no one ever does anything. But listening is part of paying attention—waiting for God to reveal something greater than if you were just jumping in trying to fix something.” – Father John Gribowich

“These are not people disengaged from their faith. These may be people disengaged from Sunday mass, but that’s not disengaged from their faith.” – Fr. Thomas Gaunt

“There are some effective people who are preaching, who are not ordained, not necessarily because they have robust theological education, but because they’ve had a really profound encounter with Christ.” – Fr. John Gribowich

Resources Mentioned

• The Catholic Project at Catholic University of America
• Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA) at Georgetown University
• Person-centered counseling and Carl Rogers’ work
• Simone Weil’s writings on attention and waiting for God

About Religion to Reality

Religion to Reality explores how Catholics can live integrated lives where faith isn’t compartmentalized but permeates every aspect of existence. Based on extensive research, including over two dozen interviews with Church leaders, scholars, and practitioners, this podcast seeks to bridge the gap between religious practice and lived reality. This concludes Season 1 of Religion to Reality.

Hosts:

• Dave Plisky – Researcher and host
• Fr. John Gribowich – Co-host and theological guide

Additional Guests This Season

Special thanks to all our season guests: Kathy Lorentz, Dr. Bill Keimig, Cindy Black, Fr. Joe Gibino, Christina Semmens, Fr. James O’Shea, Monica Martinez, Fr. David Roman, Andrea Sarubbi, Renée Roden, Emily Ricci, Mary Glowaski, Josh Packard, Luisamaria Hernandez, Mike St. Pierre, and Peter Andrastek.

Connect With Us

• Visit religiontoreality.org
• Join the Called Learning Community: calledcommunity.com

Learn More About the Discipleship Study: Religion to Reality is built on comprehensive research into how Catholics are living their faith today. Visit our website for more details and resources from the study.

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