QUICK SUMMARY

What does hard data reveal about the state of Catholic life in America—and what does it mean for the future of the Church? In this bonus episode, Dave Plisky and Fr. John Gribowich sit down with Stephen White, Executive Director of The Catholic Project at The Catholic University of America, for a candid and wide-ranging conversation. Stephen draws on the landmark 2022 National Study of Catholic Priests—the largest priest survey in half a century—to explore trust, identity, community, and what it really takes to renew the Church from within.

From the tension between clericalism and lay vocation, to the striking generational shifts among young priests, to the question of how genuine renewal actually happens in Church history, this episode offers both serious analysis and hopeful insight. Whether you’re a priest, a committed lay Catholic, or simply trying to understand where the Church is headed, this conversation will challenge and encourage you. 

ABOUT STEPHEN WHITE

Stephen White is the Executive Director of The Catholic Project at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC. Founded in 2019 in response to the clerical abuse crisis, The Catholic Project works to foster collaboration and co-responsibility between clergy and laity. Stephen led the production of the acclaimed documentary podcast Crisis: Clergy Abuse in the Catholic Church and oversaw the 2022 National Study of Catholic Priests. His background is in Catholic social teaching and philosophy, and he writes frequently on matters of faith, culture, and Church life.

IN THIS EPISODE, WE EXPLORE

1. The Catholic Project and the Crisis Podcast

• Founded in 2019 at Catholic University of America in response to the McCarrick revelations and Pennsylvania Grand Jury Report
• The Crisis podcast was produced during COVID, featuring deeply reported audio documentary-style episodes
• Goal: face the Church’s failures honestly while remaining constructive and rooted in love for the Church
• Fr. John shares that the podcast was part of his own healing journey as a survivor of clerical sexual abuse

2. The 2022 National Study of Catholic Priests

• The largest survey of priests in the United States in over 50 years
• Key findings include:
  • Younger priests (ordained post-2000) describe themselves as significantly more theologically orthodox than older cohorts
  • Younger priests are more likely to identify as politically moderate — cutting against simple “conservative priest” narratives
  • The youngest cohort is the most racially and ethnically diverse
  • There has been a dramatic collapse in priests identifying as liberal or progressive
  • Younger priests experience more isolation: many are sole pastor of a parish from day one of ordination
• A follow-up longitudinal study is currently in development for spring 2025

3. Clericalism, Authority, and Church Renewal

• Clericalism is not only a top-down problem — bottom-up clericalism (laity expecting clergy to do everything) is widespread in the US
• Pope Francis has simultaneously called out clericalism and warned against “clericalizing the laity”
• All authority carries the potential for abuse; the response is vigilance, formation, and accountability — not the elimination of hierarchy
• The Church’s vertical (hierarchical) and horizontal (communal) dimensions must work together

4. How Genuine Church Renewal Happens

• Historically, renewal almost never comes from the top down institutionally
• It begins with one person or small group responding radically to the Gospel (e.g., St. Francis, St. Ignatius)
• The person responding faithfully rarely sees the full fruit of their response — God builds from there
• Activism and discipleship must not be confused; the foundation is faithful response, not organizational strategy

5. Compartmentalized Faith and Transactional Spirituality

• R2R study finding: Mass-attending Catholics rate themselves strongest in sacramental life and weakest in “expressive fruits” — corporal and spiritual works of mercy
• Stephen identifies a “drive-thru sacrament factory” model of parish life as a root cause
• Parishes are often transaction points rather than communities of formation
• The solution requires formation that integrates the sacramental life with active charity and mission

6. Family as the Primary Formative Institution

• The family has historically been the most decisive place of Catholic formation
• Seminary training and CCD are insufficient on their own — the intuitive transmission of faith happens at home
• Current weakness of the family is one of the most underappreciated crises in the Church
• The same challenges facing priestly formation are deeply connected to challenges in family formation 

7. Generational Dynamics and Faith Sharing

• R2R study finding: Younger Catholics are more likely to cite barriers to sharing their faith
• Top barriers among younger generations: situational appropriateness, lack of confidence, not knowing how to start conversations, fear of offending
• This mirrors interpersonal skill gaps noted among younger seminary candidates — a generational, not just ecclesial, challenge
• Younger Catholics also show a stronger desire for in-person community despite being the “digital generation”

8. Community: What It Is and Isn’t

• True community is not built around shared content — it uses content as a starting point for gathering real people
• Stephen’s book club example: the books rotate, but the community of Catholic dads is the constant
• Digital and online communities have real value but are limited replacements for in-person, face-to-face belonging
• The goal of intentional faith communities is to create environments where virtue becomes habitual — not a constant max-effort struggle

TOPICS BY TIMECODE

• [00:00] Introduction — Dave and Fr. John welcome Stephen White and introduce the Catholic Project
• [01:00] The founding of the Catholic Project in 2019 — responding to the abuse crisis under CUA president John Garvey
• [02:30] Building the Crisis podcast during COVID — the challenge, the team, and why it mattered
• [07:30] John shares his personal story as a survivor of clerical sexual abuse and how the Crisis podcast contributed to his own healing
• [10:00] Connecting the abuse crisis to the 2022 Priests Study — generational trends and the conservative shift in seminarians
• [11:00] John raises a key concern: Does a clerically-centric, theologically orthodox Church inadvertently enable abuse and power imbalances?
• [12:30] Stephen’s response: All authority can be abused — the answer is vigilance, not eliminating hierarchy
• [14:00] Pope Francis, clericalism, and the call to not “clerical­ize the laity” — the vertical and horizontal dimensions of Church structure
• [16:30] John: Feeling “homeless” in a Church polarized between traditionalism and progressivism
• [18:00] What does authentic renewal look like? Historical examples: St. Francis of Assisi and St. Ignatius of Loyola
• [21:00] The danger of top-down institutional reform — why genuine renewal almost always comes from below
• [24:00] Discipleship vs. activism: The risk of “professionalizing” Catholic identity
• [26:30] Bottom-up clericalism: How lay Catholics can inadvertently perpetuate the problem by expecting clergy to do all the work
• [29:00] Transactional spirituality and the sacramental model — why the compartmentalized faith life persists
• [31:00] Connecting the R2R study findings: Catholics feel strong in sacramental life but weakest in “expressive fruits” — works of charity and mercy
• [33:00] Formation, vocation, and the role of family as the primary formative institution in the Church
• [38:00] John departs; Dave and Stephen continue on community, parish engagement, and the Assemblies of God comparison
• [41:00] Stephen and his wife raising four children — the role of intentional faith communities in everyday family life
• [43:00] Virtue, habit, and the goal of “lower effort” discipleship over time
• [46:00] The risk of insularity: Building a faith community without becoming a bubble
• [49:00] Comparing the R2R and Catholic Project studies: Generational differences in community desire, faith sharing barriers, and interpersonal skills
• [52:00] Young priests and isolation: How shrinking numbers mean more priests are now solo pastors from day one
• [54:00] Generational data on priests: Younger cohorts are more orthodox, more politically moderate, and more racially diverse
• [55:30] Why are progressive or liberal men less likely to enter the priesthood today? Dave’s theory on political identity and vocations
• [58:00] Gen Z priests and interpersonal skill gaps — and what this reveals about broader formation challenges for young men
• [1:02:00] R2R study finding: Younger generations report more barriers to sharing their faith — lack of confidence, social skills, and fear of offending
• [1:04:00] What priests wish their bishops would do differently — and why “one size fits all” pastoral approaches fail
• [1:07:00] The importance of personal prayer and discernment as the foundation beneath any program or system
• [1:08:00] How the Catholic Project communicated its study data — lessons in releasing findings in digestible, engaging formats
• [1:12:00] Why a podcast? The case for long-form audio documentary as the right vehicle for the abuse crisis story
• [1:16:00] Unanswered questions: What Stephen most wants to know about Catholic life in America
• [1:18:00] What kinds of cultures and communities tend to produce healthy vocations — to priesthood and to marriage
• [1:20:00] The significance of the “fencesitter” Catholic: the 11% attending monthly but not weekly
• [1:23:00] Jesuit Volunteer Corps data: 98% of participants who marry stay married
• [1:24:00] Digital vs. in-person community: Stephen’s honest skepticism about online faith communities
• [1:28:00] Book clubs, real community, and why shared content is a starting point, not the foundation
• [1:30:00] Closing reflections and sign-off

RESOURCES & LINKS

• The Catholic Project at The Catholic University of America
• Crisis: Clergy Abuse in the Catholic Church — Podcast
• National Study of Catholic Priests (2022)
• Religion to Reality — Full Research Report
• Jesuit Volunteer Corps: jesuitvolunteers.org
• Pew Research on Catholic Mass attendance in the US 

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