Prayer with Kathy Lorentz, Monica Martinez and Fr. David Roman

Prayer as Attention: Discovering the Mystical in Daily Life 

Quick Summary 

What if prayer isn’t just something you do at scheduled times, but the very attention you give to everything around you? In this transformative episode, we explore how “attention taken to its highest degree is the same thing as prayer” and discover why everyone—from busy parents to spiritual seekers—is called to be a mystic in their unique circumstances.

In this Episode, We Explore:

• Why 43% of prayer app users aren’t even Catholic (and what this reveals about spiritual hunger)
• The one simple test to know if your spiritual foundation is strong enough for growth
• How to turn off notifications strategically to create sacred space in daily life
• Why letting go of prayer aids might be essential for a deeper relationship with God

Redefining Prayer with Kathy Lorentz

Spiritual Director & Educator, Sunday to Sunday Ministry

• “Let us remember that we are in the holy presence of God, and for me that is everything” (8:30) – How awareness of God’s constant presence transforms everything into prayer
• “Attention is like a spotlight that can only focus on one thing at a time” (13:00) – The neuroscience behind why multitasking sabotages spiritual growth
• Practical digital boundaries: Why Kathy keeps her phone on “do not disturb” and how to create notification-free zones (15:00)
• Teaching teenagers mindfulness: The two-week digital journal exercise that helps students discover their own habits (14:30)

Digital Faith with Monica Martinez

Parish Lead at Hallow Prayer App

• 43% of Hallow users aren’t Catholic (22:30) – What this surprising statistic reveals about modern spiritual searching
• “The Holy Spirit is not limited by an app” (23:45) – How technology creates safe spaces for spiritual curiosity
• The trainer analogy: Why spiritual apps are like fitness trainers – helpful but not essential (24:00)
• When prayer aids become idols: The hidden danger of relationship with your streak vs. relationship with God (26:30)

Universal Mysticism with Father David Roman

Pastor, St. Thomas Aquinas Parish, Fairfield, CT

• Why everyone is called to be a mystic (32:30) – The same grace that worked in St. Teresa of Avila is available to every parent, professional, and person
• “Formation vs. evangelization” (38:00) – Why teaching about God isn’t the same as leading people to encounter God
• The belong → believe → behave model (39:00) – How community transforms spiritual formation
• Breaking open grace for lifelong Catholics (35:30) – Why even decades-long churchgoers often lack basic spiritual formation

The Litmus Test for Spiritual Maturity

Father John’s insight: You know your spiritual foundation is strong when you become less judgmental of how others pray, not more zealous about your particular method (29:30)

Key Takeaways

1. Nurture a Healthy Environment

• Turn off non-essential notifications immediately
• Practice the “spotlight” principle: focus completely on one thing at a time
• Use technology as a gateway to relationships, not a replacement for them

2. Recognize Prayer in Plain Sight

• Every moment of focused attention is potentially a prayer
• Look for mystery and depth in ordinary encounters
• Practice gratitude for beauty in nature, relationships, and daily experiences.

3. Embrace Your Unique Path to Holiness

• Your mystical journey will look different from saints and spiritual heroes
• The same divine grace is available regardless of your life circumstances
• Spiritual growth happens through community belonging, not isolated effort

4. Use Prayer Aids Wisely

• Whether rosaries, apps, or liturgies – don’t let the tool become the end goal
• Be willing to let go of spiritual practices when they stop serving a deeper relationship
• Strong foundations make you less judgmental, not more rigid

Meet Our Guests

Kathy Lorentz serves as a spiritual director and educator, working with the Sunday to Sunday ministry alongside Father John. A mother of five adult sons, she teaches mindfulness in the contemplative tradition and draws on decades of experience in marriage and family counseling.

Monica Martinez leads parish engagement for Hallow, the Catholic prayer app with millions of downloads. She works directly with diverse faith communities and has unique insights into how technology intersects with spiritual practice across denominational lines.

Father David Roman pastors St. Thomas Aquinas Parish in Fairfield, Connecticut, and specializes in mysticism and the universal call to holiness. His reverent celebration of the Eucharist originally drew host Dave Plisky into deeper friendship and faith exploration.

Memorable Quotes

“Pure unmixed attention is the highest form of prayer.” – Simone Weil (via Father John, 1:45)

“Everything you’re engaging with is far more than what it appears to be… there’s a great mystery that lies behind everything.” – Fr. John Gribowich (18:30)

“Mystery is not something you can’t figure out… it’s the reality that you can never exhaust knowing something.” – Fr. John Gribowich (20:30)

“You don’t need an app to pray, but you also don’t need a trainer to get fit. But gosh, it really does help.” – Monica Martinez (23:50)

Practical Action Steps

This Week:

1. Audit your notifications – Turn off everything except calls and texts
2. Practice the 3-breath attention reset – When you notice distraction, take three conscious breaths
3. Try the “wisdom, be attentive” moment – Before consuming any content, pause and set intention

This Month:

4. Keep a digital time journal for two weeks (like Kathy suggests for her students)
5. Practice letting go of one prayer aid or routine that might be limiting spiritual growth
6. Notice judgment – When you find yourself critical of others’ spiritual practices, use it as a mirror for your own rigidity

Episode Timestamps

• 00:00 – Opening prayer and introduction to prayer as attention
• 05:00 – How prayer life evolves over time (Father John’s journey)
• 08:30 – Interview with Kathy Lorentz begins: “holy presence of God”
• 13:00 – The neuroscience of attention and multitasking
• 15:00 – Digital boundaries and notification strategies
• 22:30 – Monica Martinez on prayer apps and 43% non-Catholic users
• 26:30 – When prayer aids become obstacles to a deeper relationship
• 29:30 – The spiritual maturity litmus test
• 32:30 – Father David Roman on universal mysticism
• 38:00 – Formation vs. evangelization distinction
• 40:00 – Integration and mysticism as attention to wounded humanity
• 44:00 – Closing reflections and next episode preview

Resources & Links

Ministries & Organizations:

• Sunday to Sunday – Adult faith formation ministry
• Hallow Prayer App – Catholic meditation and prayer platform
• Called Learning Community – Online faith formation gatherings

Books Mentioned:

• Praying the Truth by William Barry – Understanding prayer as friendship with God

Apps & Tools:

• Hallow – Catholic prayer and meditation app
• Your smartphone’s “Do Not Disturb” settings
• Phone notification management tools

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Join the Community: Ready for deeper formation? Join the Called Learning Community’s free online gatherings at calledcommunity.com

For more resources, visit religiontoreality.org for episode transcripts, additional materials, and ways to continue the conversation.

Next Week: Formation – From Theory to Practice

Join Dave and Father John as they explore how we actually grow in faith through both formal learning and life experience. They’ll explore the distinction between catechesis and evangelization, and why belonging must precede believing.

Religion to Reality is an initiative of DeSales Media, created by Dave Plisky and produced by Conor Donnelly. This episode features the wisdom of Kathy Lorentz, Monica Martinez, and Father David Roman.